1. A Look At The Fall Of Civilizations (With An Emphasis On The Fall Of 1200 BC & Lost Knowledge Through Library Burnings)
2. Lost Knowledge & Technology Of The Ancient World... And A Random Collection Of Inventions Showing How Inventive Humankind Is Given The Opportunity To Play At Tinkering
3. Was The Egyptian Pyramid Complex Built Up Over Time? From About 10,500 BC To About 2,500 BC?
4. Breaking News - The Shaman Of Gobekli Tepe: The Link Between The Shaman Of Lascaux Cave, Shiva & The Headless Man Of Gobekli Tepe
Underworld, Flooded Kingdoms Of The Ice Age by Graham Hancock, and the alternative though outdated third documentary Advanced Ice Age Civilization and Atlantis, provide a great overview of the discoveries of underwater cities that forces us to push back the date of the beginning of urban cities to an even earlier time than before.
Documentary Video 1: Underworld, Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age I
In 360 BC, the famous Greek philosopher Plato wrote about a battle between his city Athens and a great empire named Atlantis. In two of his books, 'Timaeus' and 'Critias', Plato describes this war, that ended when Atlantis disappeared in the ocean, due to "violent earthquakes and floods". According to Plato, all this happened 9.000 years before his time which would be at least 9.400 BC, some 12.400 years ago. Intriguingly, this also corresponds to the period when the geological age of the Younger Dryas suddenly ended with an abrupt warming of more than 10°C in only a few years. This event marked the beginning of the Holocene, the era in which we are still living today. Sea levels must have risen rapidly and dramatically, and as a result entire civilizations, if any existed, would have disappeared under water.
Here you can see the coastline change over the millennia as projected by a Geologist who studies such things...
at 27 min - Sarawati river from 10,000 to 6000 years ago - makes the Vedas very old, i.e. visual witnesses of a river that ended in 4000 BC
32 min - A South India myth points to an ancient civilization that is underwater off the coast of South India. All indications are that the ocean slowly (& with occasional fast storm floods as happens today) took over the land and the people moved inland after each inundation (this land bridge reminds me of the war between Ramayana and the King of Lanka, Ravana);
At 39 min we see a structure in 70 feet of water that geologists say was covered by the ocean 11000 years ago;
At 40 min - stories of remains found in 120 feet of water in Indian press and no where else (Indian mythology makes them more open to ancient discoveries since their mythology covers very large epochs of time);
These are the Gulf of Cambay finds off the coast of India with a carbon dating to 7500 BC showing large cities/structures that were above water many of thousands of years ago...
Report On The BBC: The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history.
Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.
The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.
The site was discovered by chance last year by oceanographers from India's National Institute of Ocean Technology conducting a survey of pollution.
Using sidescan sonar - which sends a beam of sound waves down to the bottom of the ocean they identified huge geometrical structures at a depth of 120ft.
Debris recovered from the site - including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old.
"The so-called Harappa stage of the great cities of Mohenjo-daro, Chanhu-daro, and Harappa (c. 2500-1200/1000 B.C), which bursts abruptly into view, without preparation, already fully formed and showing many completely obvious signs of inspiration from the earlier high centers of the West (i.e. fertile crescent), yet undeniable signs, also, of a native Indian tradition – this too already well developed. As professor W. Norman Brown has suggested, a native Indian center (i.e., a mythogenetic zone) somewhere either in the south or in the Ganges-Jumna area would seem to be indicated, where the characteristically Indian traits, unknown at this time farther west, must have come into form. [Primitive Mythology - Page 435]
With the discovery of ancient cities off the coast of India, the sudden appearance of Mohenjodaro and Harrapa makes more sense. Cities that existed before a rise in the oceans (that began at the end of the last ice age) got flooded and thier survivors (both of the city and ones who live inland) would rebuild elsewhere, maybe even going to the mountains to get away form the ocean. In any case, this would explain the sudden appearance of cities like Mohenjodaro and Harrapa.
"The carbon dating of 7500 BC obtained for the wooden piece recovered from the site changes the earlier held view that the first cities appeared in the Sumer Valley [in Mesopotamia] around 3000 BC," said B Sasisekaran of India's National Science Academy.
The images gathered over the past six months led to a surprising discovery - a series of well-defined geometric formations were clearly seen, spread irregularly across a nine-kilometre (five-mile) stretch, a little beneath the sea bed.
Some of them closely resemble an acropolis - or great bath - known to be characteristic of the Harappan civilisation.
The Gulf of Cambay is one of the largest tidal areas in the world - with a current of very high velocity - and so it is conceivable that the area may well have submerged an entire ancient settlement, Mr Ravindran said to the BBC.
Note Of Disagreement:
At 22 mins Hancock makes an assumption about Proto Shiva which isn't necessarily true. I covered this figure and it's connection to ancient shamanism that exited in the region in this post: The Ancient Shamanic Link To Yoga, Meditation & The Other Major Religions (With The Swastika Link Between Native Americans, Hindus & Buddhists Explained)
At 24 minutes into the video Hancock suggests that this figure is one of Manu of the flood myths of India and I have to strongly disagree. Of course, this doesn't change ANY of his underwater findings or the datings of these findings. It may be my bias from studying religion and mythology for all these years but while it is possible to link the myth of Noah taken from the Babylonians to Manu of the flood myths of India to say that every guy practicing yoga in the ancient world must have been Manu is just taking it too far. Its far more likely that this figure was mythological long before any floods as I covered in this post: The Ancient Shamanic Link To Yoga, Meditation & The Other Major Religions (With The Swastika Link Between Native Americans, Hindus & Buddhists Explained).
Screenshots/Highlights;
The land has been inundated by water since 10,000 BC...
At 6 min - megalithic burial chamber;
At 7 min - megalith structure dates to 700 ad suggesting one of the last resting places of the megalithic cultures escaping the "sea peoples"? As I covered in this post: Tracing Lost Megalithic Cultures From 9500 BC To The Present
Some screenshots of what they found...
The Turtle
At 22 min -An Indian marine biologists thinks its a harbor (which makes the most sense)
At 34 min - posts of the Jomoon people are aligned to astronomical events - in other words, a wood culture that existed before the megalithic cultures (note that the stones are also often aligned with astronomical events)!
Could something like have once been at Stonehenge before they switched to stone?...
Archaeologists believe it was constructed from 3000 BC to 2000 BC. The surrounding circular earth bank and ditch, which constitute the earliest phase of the monument, have been dated to about 3100 BC. Radiocarbon dating suggests that the first bluestones were raised between 2400 and 2200 BC, although they may have been at the site as early as 3000 BC.
Before the monument (8000 BC forward)
Archaeologists have found four, or possibly five, large Mesolithic postholes (one may have been a natural tree throw), which date to around 8000 BC, beneath the nearby modern tourist car-park. These held pine posts around 0.75 metres (2 ft 6 in) in diameter, which were erected and eventually rotted in situ. Three of the posts (and possibly four) were in an east-west alignment which may have had ritual significance; no parallels are known from Britain at the time but similar sites have been found in Scandinavia. A settlement that may have been contemporaneous with the posts has been found at Blick Mead, a reliable year round spring 1 mile (1.6 km) from Stonehenge. Salisbury Plain was then still wooded but 4,000 years later, during the earlier Neolithic, people built a causewayed enclosure at Robin Hood's Ball and long barrow tombs in the surrounding landscape. In approximately 3500 BC, a Stonehenge Cursus was built 700 metres (2,300 ft) north of the site as the first farmers began to clear the trees and develop the area. A number of other adjacent stone and wooden structures and burial mounds, previously overlooked, may date as far back as 4000 BC. Charcoal from the ‘Blick Mead’ camp 2.4 kilometres (1.5 mi) from Stonehenge (near the Vespasian's Camp site) has been dated to 4000 BC. The University of Buckingham's Humanities Research Institute believes that the community who built Stonehenge lived here over a period of several millennia, making it potentially "one of the pivotal places in the history of the Stonehenge landscape."
Related post: Was The Egyptian Pyramid Complex Built Up Over Time? From About 10,500 BC To About 2,500 BC?
The sorts of houses these ancient people lived in...
At 36 min we see circles of stones like megalithic cultures in Europe - 5000 years old;
At 40/42 min we have an agreement between western and eastern scientists that we are dealing with definite man made artifacts (as with the Indian underwater structures);
So, in conclusion, we have evidence of monuments and cities, all underwater.
Big discoveries await us where land was once above water.
During a high-resolution mapping of the seafloor surrounding Sicily, researchers discovered an ancient treasure: a stone monolith spanning 39 feet (12 meters), resting on the bottom of the Mediterranean.
Stunned, the researchers sent down divers with cameras and video recorders to get a closer look at the monolith, which had broken into two parts. They dove 131 feet (40 m) underwater in an area called the Pantelleria Vecchia Bank, located about 37 miles (60 kilometers) south of Sicily.
Several features suggest the monolith was man-made, possibly by people living during the Mesolithic period about 10,000 years ago, Lodolo said. It has a fairly regular shape and contains three holes with similar diameters. One hole, with a diameter of 24 inches (60 centimeters), punched all the way through the stone.
"There are no reasonable known natural processes that may produce these elements," the researchers wrote in the study, referring to the regular shape and similar size of the holes.
Posts of mine that cover these topics;
Tracing The Origins Of Culture & Civilization
The problem with dating Yona Guni seems to be the one I expressed in an earlier post, that western scientists have a tough time agreeing with eastern scientists (except in the case of Egyptologists who simply don't believe in hard science anymore).
"For example, Kimura said, he has identified quarry marks in the stone, rudimentary characters etched onto carved faces, and rocks sculpted into the likenesses of animals.
"The characters and animal monuments in the water, which I have been able to partially recover in my laboratory, suggest the culture comes from the Asian continent," he said.
"One example I have described as an underwater sphinx resembles a Chinese or ancient Okinawan king." Whoever created the city, most of it apparently sank in one of the huge seismic events that this part of the Pacific Rim is famous for, Kimura said.
The world's largest recorded tsunami struck Yonaguni Jima in April 1771 with an estimated height of more than 131 feet (40 meters), he noted, so such a fate might also have befallen the ancient civilization.
Kimura said he has identified ten structures off Yonaguni and a further five related structures off the main island of Okinawa. In total the ruins cover an area spanning 984 feet by 492 feet (300 meters by 150 meters).
The structures include the ruins of a castle, a triumphal arch, five temples, and at least one large stadium, all of which are connected by roads and water channels and are partly shielded by what could be huge retaining walls.
Kimura believes the ruins date back to at least 5,000 years, based on the dates of stalactites found inside underwater caves that he says sank with the city.
And structures similar to the ruins sitting on the nearby coast have yielded charcoal dated to 1,600 years ago-a possible indication of ancient human inhabitants, Kimura added.
Here is an abstract of a Japanese Study;
Title;Research for submarine ruins off Yonaguni, Japan. Journal Title;Bulletin of the College of Science, University of the Ryukyus
Title;Research for submarine ruins off Yonaguni, Japan. Journal Title;Bulletin of the College of Science, University of the Ryukyus
Abstract;Submarine research surveys using SCUBA and sonic surveys reveal detailed topography similar to submarine, pyramidal features looking like a stepped pyramid off Yonaguni in Okinawa, Japan. The site is called Iseki Point(ruins site) as a leisure diving spot. Yonaguni Submarine Pyramid(YSP) is the major structure that stands under approximately 25 meters of ocean. Essentially, it has a cliff face like the side of a stepped pyramid, and dimensions of about 290m(length) by 120m(width) by 26m(height). Flat terraces, straight walls and its surface structure of walls with scars of tool marks driven in by a wedge on the structure are identified to be artificially fabricated. Appearance and size of YSP are similar to the biggest, ancient castles such as Shuri and Nakagusuku Castles in Okinawa Island, where they are called 'gusuku'. Roads associated with drainage canals were recognized, surrounding YSP, and that a retaining wall was found along a road. The southern point of the wall is composed of huge rock fragments. Stone tools and other artifacts were discovered from the sea bottom. Those evidence strongly shows that the YSP has not been manufactured by nature. It is identifie to be man-made. The formation age is estimated to be about 10,000 years ago based on 14C and 10Be age determinations. (author abst.)
The only difference between the Japanese scientific investigation and the one printed in National Geographic is the date ascribed to these structures. In National geographic the structures are 2000 years old and in the Japanese Scientific Study it has been dated to the last ice age (10,000 years ago).
This may explain the documentary Ice Age Civilizations ...
Advanced Ice Age Civilizations and Atlantis - Underwater Archeology
Ice Age Civilizations brings a couple of interesting arguments to the table;
32min - The celtec cross provides an easy way for the ancients to map. All they needed was the ability to travel and we already found wooden canoes going back to the time of Gobekli Tepe (9000 BC). Gobekli Tepe, by the way, completely debunks the traditional theory that the Megalith cultures began around 3000 BC. Not to mention the other pieces of evidence I outlined in my post tracing Megalith cultural remains.
One argument I like is that people who work with stones for generations get a feel for stone. Following the trend of inventions common to human creativity, it is likely someone would have invested an easier way to work with stone and the technology/technique would have developed further over time. Then, like I argued in the post dealing with the fall of civilizations, a culture could fall and disintegrate fairly easily given how conquerors and war works. Could the ancient stone masons have developed a lost technology that enabled to make a sort of machine to cut rock?
Another argument I like is that some of these cities underwater could be from later times. There is alot of evidence of changing coastlines and few thousands of years ago the coasts along India could have changed enough to lose cities without having to go all the way back to thousands of years. Afterall, human history is filled with one catastrophe after another. Many civilizations have fallen. Why couldn't many of the cities we think are very old, are still old just not as old as some people hope? It is possible to trace a culture going back thousands of years. It is possible to trace the origins of megalithic cultures going to around 10,000 BC. Why couldn't the civilizations have evolved and fallen with regular catastrophes like current history and history going back to pompei or the more recent tsunami that wiped out coasts on Indonesia recently?
In any case, this monolith suggests that carving stone DOES go back to a time that corresponds to Graham Hanocks "Golden Age" of about 13,000 years ago (and Gobekli Tepe debunks a whole bunch of professionals portrayed in Advanced Ice Age Civilizations & Atlantis)...
During a high-resolution mapping of the seafloor surrounding Sicily, researchers discovered an ancient treasure: a stone monolith spanning 39 feet (12 meters), resting on the bottom of the Mediterranean.
Stunned, the researchers sent down divers with cameras and video recorders to get a closer look at the monolith, which had broken into two parts. They dove 131 feet (40 m) underwater in an area called the Pantelleria Vecchia Bank, located about 37 miles (60 kilometers) south of Sicily.
Several features suggest the monolith was man-made, possibly by people living during the Mesolithic period about 10,000 years ago, Lodolo said. It has a fairly regular shape and contains three holes with similar diameters. One hole, with a diameter of 24 inches (60 centimeters), punched all the way through the stone."There are no reasonable known natural processes that may produce these elements," the researchers wrote in the study, referring to the regular shape and similar size of the holes.
Maybe the culture ended then or maybe it spread and lost its vitality over time (as is normal to civilizations) and eventually fell. Then remnants rose again, then fell. Till eventually all we have are the occasional myths and legends referring to a lost age.
In any case, its a good idea to look at countering ideas to more popular ones to make sure you haven't overlooked any facts in your analysis.
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